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kai
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Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Ipoh
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 Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: FITNA: The Absolute bull**** |
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| Quote: | March 28, 2008 by princejake
I have just finished watching the movie FITNA.
What was this bloke, Geert Wilders, thinking?
Associating Islam with terrorists and radicalism, is like saying all Germans are the Nazis, and that all the Dutch are as ignorant and stupid as Geert Wilders.
The movie portrays how the Quran, the holy book of Islam, incites violence and hatred, and that all Muslims are radicals in their Islamic belief.
It shows series of photographs, videos, and misleading statements from terrorists, and radical Muslim leaders.
The thing that upsets me the most was the amount of publicity this movie has, and ultimately, the feedbacks from the viewers.
Most of them supported Geert Wilders, and most even agreed with his belief that Islam is violent, and that it is an evil cult.
The movie was premiered on March 27, 2008 and has generated more than three million viewers in two days.
I am shocked, and disappointed with how ridiculous, and irresponsible Nederlands is, by sacrificing national, even international security, just to prove that they practice their so-called press freedom, which I think is dysfunctional and irrational with the emergence of this movie.
As a non-muslim, I have lived my entire life in muslim-populated countries, like Indonesia and Malaysia, and FITNA�s representation of Islam is totally out of the reality.
FITNA the movie also implies that the people, especially emphasizing the West, are in danger by the Islamization process and that we should stop this domination process.
When in reality, Muslims all over the world are the real victims of this misinterpretation of Islam, even in the war-torn state of Iraq where most of its population are dominated by Muslims themselves.
Discrimination against Muslims is apparent in western countries, and even Muslim nations, especially for people who possess Islamic names.
I still remember my experience at the US Embassy in Jakarta, whereby Indonesians who appear to have Muslim names are often denied their Visa without proper excuse, and ironically they stamp the line �Canceled/Denied without Prejudice�.
Another thing is that, if Muslims were to demonstrate against the West, they would be perceived as narrow-minded and violent, but if Westerners were to protest, it is perceived as human rights and a symbolic act of democracy.
If Geert Wilders is capable of calling all Muslims, and the religion Islam, as a radical and extremist cult, I believe he is also worthy to be called an extremist himself. His status as a radical believer against Islam, automatically puts him in the coherent status with the terrorists.
A call to block the movie from being viewed by the public in South East Asia is I think, important to harness calm and stability. I believe Muslims in Indonesia, Malaysia, and Singapore should not react inappropriately in the bid to protest against the movie.
If such inappropriate move is made, this is used as an advantage by the West media.
The movie FITNA is indeed a Fitnah (Accusation in Indonesian) aimed at the Muslims. |
The above article is quoted from
http://theindonesiandream.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/fitna-the-absolute-bull****/
erm...hehe...i'm reading the article...i'll give my opinion later.... :p |
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rowanlim
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Posts: 2680
Location: Malaysia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Jeez. Crazy guy. I think he's a lunatic for doing that film. Where does he get off passing on false information about Islam? Does that make him any different from the terrorists who claim that they are doing their duty?
From BBC News:
| Quote: | Dutch protest against Islam film
At least 1,000 people have taken part in a demonstration in Amsterdam against the planned release of a film expected to be highly critical of Islam.
Protesters objected to the planned internet release of the film by Dutch right-wing politician Geert Wilders.
Mr Wilders says the 15-minute film deals with Islamic ideology which he describes as "the enemy of freedom".
The planned release, expected before the end of this month, has sparked angry responses in the Muslim world.
Some protesters in central Amsterdam carried signs that said "Stop the witch hunt against Muslims".
"We can no longer remain silent. There is a climate of hate and fear in the Netherlands," said Rene Danen, a spokesman from anti-racism organisation Nederland Bekent Kleur (The Netherlands Shows its Colours), which organised the protest.
The Dutch government has disassociated itself from Mr Wilders' views, but there are fears the film will spark protests similar to those that followed the publication in Denmark two years ago of cartoons seen as offensive to Muslims.
The film has already been condemned by several Muslim countries, including Iran and Pakistan.
'Fight for freedom'
Mr Wilders' film is entitled Fitna, an Arabic word used to describe strife or discord, usually religious.
Mr Wilders wrote a commentary in a Dutch newspaper on Saturday.
"The film is not so much about Muslims as about the Koran and Islam. The Islamic ideology has as its utmost goal the destruction of what is most dear to us, our freedom," he wrote in De Volkskrant.
"Fitna is the last warning for the West. The fight for freedom has only just begun," he said.
Mr Wilders says he plans to release his film on the internet before the end of the month.
He has had police protection since Dutch director Theo van Gogh was killed by a radical Islamist in 2004. |
Source
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kai
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Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 23
Location: Ipoh
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: |
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We should respect other people's religion.
If not, world war III will be initiated and this time it will become a religion war. |
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rowanlim
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Posts: 2680
Location: Malaysia
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: |
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^Agreed, there is also an issue on HOW TO RESPOND TO THIS FILM. Already there are memos (even in UMP) to boycott Dutch products...The article below should be interesting.
| Quote: | Controversial Fitna and The Boycott on Dutch
Worldfutures.info published Mahathir: Boycott Dutch products but what not Coca Cola . Malaysia Today republished it with comments from its readers. Malaysiakini should have its own entry as well.
Accordingly, our ex-Prime Minister, Tun Dr. Mahathir called for a boycott on Dutch / Netherlands products in protest over the film titled Fitna .
For those not in the know, Fitna is created by Dutch legislator Geert Wilders. It is a 15 minutes short movie that cited verses from Quran, matching them with video clips of shocking statements from radical clerics. Furthermore, among the images being displayed are the Sept 11 attack on the United States, the 2004 commuter train bombings in Spain and the murder later that year of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh on an Amsterdam street. Related controversial headlines of newspaper cuttings from European nations are in the film as well.
For more information on the movie, please visit the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(film) in wikipedia.
It is not a movie for the faint-hearted and certainly it does not do justice for Islam as a possible religion of peace. However, bear in mind that the images and speeches are real. It should not be dismissed that certain Dutch people may be concerned with what is happening around the world concerning certain (not all) practitioners of Islam.
I think calling for boycott of this movie and Dutch products will not bring in any good results. It is as if subconsciously "indirectly" giving support to the film. I personally think it is not the problem with the religion Islam. It is the actions of certain (not all) Muslims that should not be agreed upon.
I think the Muslims should condemn this movie and casting it as a misrepresentation of Islam. Certain people preaching in the video who called for any form of violence should be condemned as well.
I think using this method, the religion's way can be made to be understood better.
In my opinion, any form of religion has its share of violent content and means to justify or achieve certain ends. If you choose peace, you get peace. Violence begets violence.
It is not only Malaysia that needs change. The method of Muslims on handling such criticism should change as well. It may be a long journey but perhaps it is high time to start now. |
Source
Another related article:
| Quote: | Why boycott Dutch products over 'Fitna'?
JUDGING from the slew of media reports about the Muslim world's response to the Dutch politician Geert Wilders' anti-Islam film 'Fitna', we found some people's calls for a boycott on Dutch products to be misplaced if not downright misleading.
Yes, we recognise the outrage that so many Muslims have felt at Wilders' smear campaign and act of provocation; in fact, we share the anger.
Yes, we support the individuals and organisations' condemnation against the hatred-brimming film created solely for the purpose of "denigrating the Holy Quran, causing insults to the sentiments of more than 1.3 billion Muslims in the world," as the Organisation of the Islamic Conference (OIC) Secretary General Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu put it.
But we are questioning the reason why some people, including Mahathir Mohamad of Malaysia, are calling on the Muslims worldwide to boycott Dutch products in protest of the film.
Recently, the former prime minister of Malaysia made that call saying such a boycott could result in The Netherlands having to "close shop", as Muslims made up the wealthiest portion of the world's population and were also the biggest importers.
He said that in order for the boycott call to be effective, however, all 1.3 billion Muslims in the world must unite in the boycott and put the interest of Islam and Muslims over that of individual needs. "We must not be afraid of losing trade with them.
If we do, then we won't be thinking as Muslims, but more for our own self interests," he said.
When we think about the sheer number of Muslims grouped in the OIC, then we understand the significant consumer power involved; 1.3 billion people!
But Arnold Heertje, a former professor of economics at the University of Amsterdam, said an economic boycott of the Netherlands would have little effect.
"It would amount to a drop of 1.7 percent in our exports if the boycott was applied comprehensively. Probably the effect would be much smaller and possibly zero," he said.
Our main concern is not whether the boycott would be effective or not; instead, we are questioning whether a boycott is called for in this case.
Since the beginning of the uproar over the movie, both the government of The Netherlands and the ordinary citizens, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, have voiced their own stance against Wilders' film. The Dutch government distanced itself from the film quite early in the fray. In fact, when the ambassadors of 26 Islamic countries met with Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen to see whether the film could be banned, they were told that not only was the public prosecutor had started investigating whether any offence had been committed, the Dutch government had also voiced its own condemnation against the film.
In fact there has been criticism against the film from beyond the Islamic world.
The Brunei Times carried a report on how the Jewish community in the Netherlands condemned it, while Austrian Foreign Minister Stephen Smith called the film "highly offensive," and "an obvious attempt to generate discord between faith communities." United Nations General Secretary Ban Ki-moon also said it was "insulting and anti-Islamic."
Those protests are voiced even more loudly than some of the protest made by some Muslim communities, including those in the Netherlands.
Those protests reported around the world may have or have not somewhat appeased some Muslims' anger but to push forward for a boycott against Dutch products would be unfairness on the Muslims' part.
By pushing for that boycott, the Muslims would seek to hurt more than just Geert Wilders, namely the rest of the Dutch population.
Surely the Muslims would not wish to inflict harm on those who are innocent from the hateful provocation carried out by Wilders? |
Source
I agree, is it REALLY necessary to boycott? I mean, how does that prove that what he said isn't true? It's basically just showing unhappiness that he's portraying Islam in the wrong light, but to counter that, there should be proper explanations of the truth. Boycotting is silly, IMO.
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bebe_lulu87
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Joined: 17 Apr 2008
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Location: Jay Bee
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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I've actually seen the movie.my roommate has it.As a Muslim,(devout or not) I felt very angered,fumed and full of rage after seeing it.To be honest,I almost felt like i wanted to cry.Yea it did feel like a personal attack.Coz an attack on my faith or what I believe in would be an attack on me,my family,friends and my fellow Muslims all over the world.Although the movie didn't last anymore then 10 minutes,it felt like ages until i could finally recover from it.It saddens me to see how damaging this movie would be to the western world and also on how it aggravates the tension between Islam and the western world then it already is post-9/11.
In the movie there are several translations that were cut off mid way then pasted to another completely different verse only to exhibit a whole new meaning to the whole translation...which,in the movie it cleverly relates these mix-matched verses with the terrorist attacks in the US.(9/11).In one part,a girl (toddler it think coz she looks like she's 3 yrs old) innocently passes of an insulting remark regarding jews.I mean,its a 3 YEAR-OLD CHILD for god's sake.Its obvious that the adult behind the camera was the true perpetrator of this act.Everything was staged.Thats all i can say.Everything was STAGED.
I saw the movie last month so i couldn't really recall the exact details of the rest.All this time I did try to erase and forget the upsetting contents of the movie.And what's more upsetting are the intentions of this particular individual (Wilder)responsible for the productions of this movie.
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rowanlim
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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I think it was deliberate on the director Geert Wilders' part. He is anti-Muslim & he MEANT to show Islam as a violent religion. Bad move for him. I hear he is now under police protection, there were several death threats for him.
It's insensitive to insult other people's religion, but to do it purposely & with full force, that's just plain rude.
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calebdanvers
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Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 1206
Location: Planet Earth
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: |
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I dunno why but I personally feel that in order for us to really GET THE REAL PICTURE, we hav to experience it ourselves...I'm not FOR or AGAINST the film FITNA, but I'm merely only saying what I could see with my naked eyes.
Every religion will witness EXTREMITIES and that includes Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam etc. We hav christian extremes fighting for independence in Northern Ireland. It all comes down to us human beings to view things POSITIVELY....Shud we or shud we not take innocent LIVES by commiting suicide bombings. In Buddhism, you WILL BE FOREVER DAMNED IN HELL if u take other ppl's lives and when talking bout life, that includes ur own.
I'm not a devoted or a devout religious person. I'm only trying be neutral cuz I really believe in this phrase 'Treat others as you would like be treated'. Only love can conquer hatred. If ppl keep on committing violence, it will forever be like what's happening in all the war-torn countries. No one seems to be willing to back-off and promote peace as they think by retaliating with violence, they are our HEROES and that they will be loved by GOD. Now this is really a distorted thinking. It doesn't make u A HERO to KILL and TAKE other ppl's lives and it doesn't make u the ONE that GOD is looking FOR. However, when u die, u will relive all the moments of u taking other ppl's lives, very vivid and fresh, and u will feel the agony of the undying and grueling pain they feel when u take their lives. The innocent and pure blood that stains ur hands will continually haunt u wherever u go. I DUNNO what's in their minds but certainly someone has been brainwashing them for good.
I have been however so impressed with the word 'DIALOGUE'. If only ppl could SPEND SOME TIME engaging in dialogue, you know opening up your heart and relating matters sincerely to each other, letting down ur arrogance and guard, then the world will be a much BETTER and PEACEFUL place. AND of corse DIALOGUE is for ppl who ARE SINCERELY into PEACE, not for ppl who are manipulative and also not for religion hijackers.
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Last edited by calebdanvers on Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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rowanlim
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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^Agreed. I feel that the director went too far. It was obvious he manipulated the words, & portrayed them in a bad light. That's just wrong. What the Muslim terrorists did is sickening & outrageous, definitely not holy or just in the eyes of any religion. What the director did was plain out insensitive & rude.
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calebdanvers
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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there's some serious thinking and pondering that needs to be done here. if any of the contents in the 'fitna' short film is so misconstrued, why are the ppl particularly the muslims responding with anger and in a very unreasonable and uncalled for way? does that mean some of the contents are true and they dun wan other ppl to get down on it? NO OFFENSE but this is really unsettling, i couldn't help but wonder.
and i'm very sure many of us are well aware of this shuddering part where there's this one man loudly declaring and i quote 'Islam is superior than the Jews, than the Christians, than the Buddhists, than the Hindus. The only(law) Allah accepts is Islam and whoever seeks any other(law) apart from Islam will never be accepted'. This i positively believe is 'surprisingly' true cuz i had been subjected to the same statement over and over again in my boarding school years.
i'm not trying to make a scene outta this, but i'm only merely speaking my mind and my experience in a middling manner. no ill-intentions so i really hope no hard feelings from those who wud take this the wrong way.
@rowanlim - ur third article 'why boycott dutch products over 'Fitna'?' is certainly an interesting one. well, that writer must have gotten sth wrong here bout Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad. Tun once called for 'buy british last' campaign. i believe anyone who's a fan of him wud have known what's that campaign about and how successful it was. while i dun necessarily support boycotting dutch products, but 'buy british last' really did work.
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rowanlim
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: |
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I suppose that they do have a right to be furious at the demeaning of their religion, after all, that was what the director apparently set out to do. But boycotting & as the New Orleans people would say, "getting all het up" would just worsen tensions & not solve the problem. As it is, the director is under constant surveillance after he received various assassination threats. That's not how you counter idiocy. Boycotting, although it may be effective as caleb pointed out, is not the answer I believe. The general public will only see that as an "acting out' & perhaps as proof that whatever slander in that movie is REAL. That's not what we'd want. They should simply clarify the flaws via the media & live their lives. Sending threats & boycotting simply aren't mature steps to counter the problem, IMO.
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